Gotten gotten gotten gotten
Sep. 27th, 2012 09:16 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dorindaFollowing this BBC article on Americanisms entering British English, a bunch of British-English speakers wrote in with the Americanisms they've been hearing that bug them the most. And I'm finding it really interesting!
I mean, I think a lot about British English and how to change American terms to the appropriate British ones, due to reading and sometimes writing fanworks with British-English canon. But because AmEng is my native tongue, I don't usually get a good sense of which terms sound the worst to the BritEngs.
So for instance, in the 50 examples from people writing in, I often agree on business jargon, and I've never cared for "deplane." But with some of the other examples, I can't actually understand what it is they hate so much.
Like, the very first one on the list: "When people ask for something, I often hear: 'Can I get a...' It infuriates me. It's not New York. It's not the 90s. You're not in Central Perk with the rest of the Friends. Really." I'd never thought that that little ordering phrase, which I've used oh only a million times in my life, could be infuriating or sound purely sitcom-esque! Who knew? (...welllll, anyone not immersed in my native languagescape, that's who.)
Course, maybe it's that phrase coming from an otherwise native BritEng speaker that does the infuriating, and I am free to continue on my merry way and talk like someone from TV, which as we all know all Americans do anyway. :D
This one is perplexing for other reasons, though, and I could use more context: "Train station. My teeth are on edge every time I hear it. Who started it? Have they been punished?" Gotta admit I use that one all the time too, when appropriate--I use "Metro station," "bus station," or "train station" depending on the location I mean (Metro station = DC underground rail, bus station = usually Greyhound or other long-distance bus service, train station=Amtrak or regional rail service, trains that are not the subway). If 'train station' is a punishable Americanism, what do British English speakers say instead?
Other ones are giving me an enjoyable step outside my native speech, like learning that some British English speakers hate the final 'already' ("Turn that off already") or the purposely-ungrammatical (I'd guess Southernism?) "that'll learn you" (which I don't say much, but if I did I'd probably pronounce it as "larn").
And, yeah, sorry about that "gotten", British Englishers, but I'm stuck with it.
I mean, I think a lot about British English and how to change American terms to the appropriate British ones, due to reading and sometimes writing fanworks with British-English canon. But because AmEng is my native tongue, I don't usually get a good sense of which terms sound the worst to the BritEngs.
So for instance, in the 50 examples from people writing in, I often agree on business jargon, and I've never cared for "deplane." But with some of the other examples, I can't actually understand what it is they hate so much.
Like, the very first one on the list: "When people ask for something, I often hear: 'Can I get a...' It infuriates me. It's not New York. It's not the 90s. You're not in Central Perk with the rest of the Friends. Really." I'd never thought that that little ordering phrase, which I've used oh only a million times in my life, could be infuriating or sound purely sitcom-esque! Who knew? (...welllll, anyone not immersed in my native languagescape, that's who.)
Course, maybe it's that phrase coming from an otherwise native BritEng speaker that does the infuriating, and I am free to continue on my merry way and talk like someone from TV, which as we all know all Americans do anyway. :D
This one is perplexing for other reasons, though, and I could use more context: "Train station. My teeth are on edge every time I hear it. Who started it? Have they been punished?" Gotta admit I use that one all the time too, when appropriate--I use "Metro station," "bus station," or "train station" depending on the location I mean (Metro station = DC underground rail, bus station = usually Greyhound or other long-distance bus service, train station=Amtrak or regional rail service, trains that are not the subway). If 'train station' is a punishable Americanism, what do British English speakers say instead?
Other ones are giving me an enjoyable step outside my native speech, like learning that some British English speakers hate the final 'already' ("Turn that off already") or the purposely-ungrammatical (I'd guess Southernism?) "that'll learn you" (which I don't say much, but if I did I'd probably pronounce it as "larn").
And, yeah, sorry about that "gotten", British Englishers, but I'm stuck with it.
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Date: 2012-09-27 01:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 02:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 03:37 pm (UTC)There's a memorable scene when they're with Badger and I believe it's Mole who is practicing swinging his cudgel and muttering, "teach 'em, learn 'em, learn 'em, teach 'em...."
:)
I love that book.
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Date: 2012-09-27 02:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 02:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 05:18 pm (UTC)A bunch of those bug me too, TBH. Americans are big on turning nouns into verbs, like medaling, and making shit up, like deplane and signage (that one still drives me bananas).
Speaking of bananas, "reach out to" instead of call or contact, and issue instead of problem really irritate me. It's that irritating corporate culture-speak, where there are no problems, only challenges, and they use phrases like "reach out to" so they seem more human.
I'll admit, "could care less" drives me batshit. And "where's it at" instead of "where is it" is just bad grammar, like (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction.
There are Britishisms creeping into American English that make me crazy, too. "Was sat," instead of "was sitting," for example. ARGH.
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Date: 2012-09-27 05:45 pm (UTC)Yeah, me too, especially since 1) it has the opposite meaning! and 2) there's such an easy and accurate alternative!
I'm a little surprised it's an Americanism, instead of just, you know, a Wrong-ism among everyone everywhere. But maybe we started it. I'm sorry, rest of the world!!
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Date: 2012-09-27 05:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 06:11 pm (UTC)I grew up in hick and border-Southern areas, and I knew no one who said "learn you" unless it was a TV hick or Southerner. *shakes fist at TV*
I do try more to do "Can I have...?", so is that better? I'll try my best not to say it, I swear!
I am also clueless about the offensiveness of "train station."
I say "Pardon?" or "Excuse me?" rather than "What?" most of the time. "Pardon" most often, probably.
I now keep thinking of James Lipton loving on Bernard Pivot with his 10 questions at the end of every Inside the Actor's Studio, and the favorite and least favorite words.
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Date: 2012-09-27 08:29 pm (UTC)HAAANH?
I never do say "Excuse me?" these days for this particular purpose, and I'm guessing it's because I hear too many examples (in movies/TV, and occasionally from my Angry Dad) of it as a purely aggressive warning interjection.
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Date: 2012-09-27 08:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 11:11 pm (UTC)Actually, I was reading comments over there, too, so I was aware of the "HAANH?" context. :-)
"I'm sorry?" is probably the thing that I say most when I don't hear/understand what someone is saying. I can understand that it might sound sarcastic or aggressive, depending on tone. "HAANH?" is such an eastern seaboard thing.
Which is why I've gotten into discussions before about calling people sir or ma'am, especially when they're getting upset. One former co-worker said she always liked how I said it, but she felt really stilted when she tried to say it. I've heard from other people, though, thinking it sounds condescending when someone says "ma'am." I was just raised that it's a respectful way to talk to someone, especially if you don't know them that well.
My boss also has a tendency to holler for me from her office, and I'll usually answer back, "Ma'am?" or "Yes, Ma'am?" which for some reason makes her laugh and mock me nearly every time.
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Date: 2012-09-29 07:27 pm (UTC)I'm willing to bet that successful sir/ma'am-ing is a special skill these days! My Angry Dad (again) deploys the Angry Ma'am at service people in customer service calls (sigh), to the point where my brother and I use the phrase "an 'excuse-me-ma'am'" as shorthand for that particular kind of high-blood-pressure encounter.
Around here, though, it's not quite as uncommon and is used in positive/respectful ways, so it's not necessarily going to trip someone's aggression/condescension perception trigger. I suspect that's at least partly because of this area's nearness to the South, as well as a more general Southern influence on some of the behavioral tendencies around here.
"HAANH?" is such an eastern seaboard thing.
You know, ever since I came up with this way of spelling it, I've felt a little bit better, because it cracks me up. "HAANH?" Next time someone whaps me with one of those, maybe I will feel a little bit more amused, to dilute the homicidal surge. *g*
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Date: 2012-09-27 06:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 08:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 07:50 pm (UTC)"They pile up the bodies / and I say, 'That'll learn ya..." <3
It's a different shade of vindictiveness entirely from "Und ich sage: 'Hoppla!'" but I love both.
I have to admit, as a non-native speaker of whatever type of English, "Can I get a..." sounds sorta rude to me too; I would probably say something like "I'd like a..., please". But maybe that would actually be rude, or get me funny looks in the US. Aaand this sort of thing is just why I avoid writing current-time US or UK settings in fanfic.
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Date: 2012-09-27 08:36 pm (UTC)Oooh, yeah, I like that!
"Can I get a..." sounds sorta rude to me too
Seriously, my mind = blown over this. It's kind of distressing to know I've been clomping around this whole time being boorish! I shall change my evil ways forthwith.
I would probably say something like "I'd like a..., please". But maybe that would actually be rude, or get me funny looks in the US.
Nahhhh! ...Well, at least, I wouldn't find it at all rude, and it's definitely one of the variations I use all the time ("I'd like the lamb chops, please."). But on the other hand, I obviously am not always aware when I'm being rude! *g*
why I avoid writing current-time US or UK settings in fanfic
Awwww! You know your many US frenz would beta
the hell out of youit most lovingly and tenderly.no subject
Date: 2012-09-28 07:06 am (UTC)I'm sorry! But you know, I wouldn't worry about it at all, except maybe if you were visiting the UK tomorrow or something. (And if you were, that would be terrific!) Still, it's not like you'd have to suddenly become all bowler-hatted and "I do beg your pardon, but my foot seems to have wedged itself under yours" or anything.
I bet the Brits do get much more huffy over fellow Brits saying these things. At least that makes sense to me.
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Date: 2012-09-27 11:14 pm (UTC)I seriously doubt "I'd like a..., please" would come out as rude, unless you put the extra, super-duper sarcastic "Puh-LEASE" on it or something. At worst, I'd think people would find it charmingly over-polite.
(I listened to my mother: I still say please and thank you. I also apologize when I've realized that I have appallingly forgotten to say please or thank you.)
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Date: 2012-09-28 07:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-28 12:01 am (UTC)I'm honestly clueless as to how else you would say "least worst option." I realize it sounds clunky, but it has a definite meaning, and I can't think of any other way to say it that wouldn't require 20 more words. May I have a little help?
I don't blame people if they slip a word or phrase from another place into their vernacular. Is "alphabetize" really so terrible?
I can think of some pretty stupid Britishisms, I'm sure, such as using "takeaway" for food that is delivered. Oh, you took that away from the shop without leaving your flat, did you? But pardon me, of course "takeaway" is correct and nothing else will suffice. (My defense of Americans not using "takeaway" is that we use "take-out" or "delivery" depending on who moved the food, which in my mind makes more sense.)
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Date: 2012-09-29 07:18 pm (UTC)My guess on the hatred for "alphabetize" would be that it comes from a more general hatred for turning a noun into a verb with the "ize" suffix (witness the complaint about "burglarize"). I don't see why we should have to say a whole mouthful, though ("Please put these cards into alphabetical order") if we have a handy one-word term for it.
And I admit, I have no sympathy for the "it's MATHS" person. *g*